In this episode of Creative Guts, co-hosts Becky Barsi and Laura Harper Lake sit down with Erin Sweeney, an artist, educator, and founder of BrickHouse Arts.
In this episode of Creative Guts, co-hosts Becky Barsi and Laura Harper Lake sit down with Erin Sweeney, an artist, educator, and founder of BrickHouse Arts.
Erin’s practice bridges book arts, printmaking, fiber arts, and installation, with work rooted in storytelling and a deep appreciation for craftsmanship. In this episode we learn about Erin’s journey as a creative, and how teaching at Plymouth State University, running her creative studio, and connecting with her community fuel her artistic journey.
Learn more about Erin and her work at www.erinsweeney.net, www.instagram.com/brickhousearts, and
https://www.plymouth.edu/person/erin-sweeney.
Listen to this episode wherever you listen to podcasts or on our website www.CreativeGutsPodcast.com. Connect with us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Discord. Subscribe to our Substack newsletter at creativegutspod.substack.com.
If you love listening, consider making a donation to Creative Guts! Our budget is tiny, so donations of any size make a big difference. Learn more about us and make a tax-deductible donation at www.CreativeGutsPodcast.com.
Thank you to Kennebunk Savings Bank for being an official sponsor of the podcast!
Thank you to our friends at Art Up Front Street Studios and Gallery in Exeter, NH and the Rochester Museum of Fine Arts in Rochester, NH for their support of the show!
Any views or opinions expressed by our hosts or guests do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Creative Guts.
[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:00] LHL: I'm Laura Harper Lake.
[0:00:01] BB: I'm Becky Barsi.
[0:00:02] LHL & BB: And you're listening to Creative Guts.
[0:00:18] LHL: Hey, friends. Thanks for tuning in to Creative Guts.
[0:00:20] BB: Today we are chatting with Erin Sweeney, an artist, educator, and founder of Brick House Arts. Erin's practice bridges book arts, printmaking, fiber arts, and installation with work rooted in storytelling and a deep appreciation for craftsmanship.
[0:00:34] LHL: We're about to jump right into this episode, but first, I'd also like to give a big thank you to Kennebunk Savings Bank for being an official sponsor of the podcast. Thank you so much for your support. With that, let's jump right into this episode of Creative Guts with Erin Sweeney.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:00:56] BB: Erin Sweeney, welcome to the Creative Guts Podcast. We are so glad to finally get you here.
[0:01:00] ES: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.
[0:01:03] BB: Yay.
[0:01:04] ES: Yeah, it’s great.
[0:01:05] BB: Of course, you have been on our list of potential guests for years. We have so many people in common, so many connections. We just learned that your neighbor is Matt. Matt, remind me – Matt’s at –
[0:01:20] ES: Matt Patterson.
[0:01:20] BB: Matt Patterson. Sorry. I know, Matt, we bought your book for Christmas. Thank you for that. You've got neighbors who've been on the show before. You have colleagues.
[0:01:30] ES: Yeah, Jason Bogata, we were talking about. There's so many intersections.
[0:01:33] LHL: Joel, Christian, Gil.
[0:01:35] ES: Yeah.
[0:01:35] BB: The man, the myth, the legend really.
[0:01:37] LHL: It's amazing. It's been great.
[0:01:38] BB: How do you know Joe Cooney?
[0:01:40] ES: NHIA. Joe worked with us when we were all doing our foundations gig, and it was Jason Bogata and Joel and me and another crew.
[0:01:49] BB: What an awesome group.
[0:01:50] ES: It was an amazing, serious amazing crew. Actually, I'd love to tell Joe that one of the assignments that he and Joel developed about adaptability, my students love. It was total, they had to explain it to me over and over again, because I'm not a D&D player. I was like, I don't understand the cards. Joe was like “Erin, when they come in, we'll give them the cards.” But my students really are so attracted to that assignment, still.
[0:02:14] LHL: Nice.
[0:02:15] ES: Yeah. It's great.
[0:02:15] LHL: Well, you maybe have to explain more about that. That's awesome.
[0:02:19] ES: Maybe you guys start playing D&D, too.
[0:02:20] LHL: I know.
[0:02:21] BB: It's so fun.
[0:02:22] ES: It's really fun.
[0:02:22] LHL: Oh, my students would be psyched.
[0:02:24] BB: Yes, yes. Once you get in, you can't get out.
[0:02:26] LHL: Yeah, really?
[0:02:27] ES: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
[0:02:28] LHL: Okay.
[0:02:29] ES: Yeah, I love it.
[0:02:29] BB: It's a lot of fun.
[0:02:29] LHL: Oh, great. Okay.
[0:02:32] BB: For listeners who may not know anything about you, can you just take a few moments to describe who you are as a creative and some of your background?
[0:02:38] ES: Yeah. I live in New Hampshire, obviously. I live in Hancock, New Hampshire. I've been making art for a long time, sculpture, book arts, printmaking, installation, lots of sewing. I just opened a new little art studio in Hancock, New Hampshire, which I'm very psyched about. Yeah. I've been teaching for 25 years, which I can't believe. Started in public high school and then went to NHIA in Manchester. Now I'm at Plymouth State University.
[0:03:07] LHL: Wow. Balancing the teaching and the art world.
[0:03:11] ES: It's always a battle, isn't it? Yeah.
[0:03:13] LHL: Do they inform each other ever? Like, inspire?
[0:03:15] ES: They totally do. I think I've gotten to the age where I just feel it's all one big art making process for me. Sort of let all that other stuff go. My students definitely inform my practice. My practice informs my students. I really am trying to get them to see the whole holistic part of it. This new studio feels like the whole thing is the art making. I think that I really wanted to play store for my whole life. Everything was priced in my bedroom and I had a cash register. Now I'm living the dream. I have a little shop in the front. And it’s this.
[0:03:55] BB: This is Brick Art Studio.
[0:03:56] ES: Yeah.
[0:03:57] BB: Awesome. You had a lovely home in the press. Or lovely –
[0:04:02] ES: In the home.
[0:04:03] BB: In the home. Lovely press in the home. Home press.
[0:04:09] ES: Such a silly name.
[0:04:10] BB: Lovely in the home press. Okay. I went to that studio, ages and ages ago, where you had a show at the Lyceum Gallery. What was the impetus for developing Brick Art Studio? Was it just because you wanted to play store? Or is there some other – where's the store going to go from here? What's your plan?
[0:04:27] ES: I think that Lovely in the Home, and I had another studio in downtown Peterborough that was great. Then life happens, change happens, and I was able to buy this building in Hancock. It was two apartments. Then I thought, oh, I can live upstairs and have my studio downstairs. Then it's right on Main Street in Hancock. I thought, okay, well, if we have pop-ups and whatever, open the – here we are. There's no staircases and no whatever. It's been really fun. Hancock is a pretty amazing community, like all communities. People have been really great and really curious. They just come right in the front door and want to know what's going on. The retail part started as, I mean, it's not really the main goal, but it's been fun to have people come in and see the whole thing as an installation. I think that's how I think of it. Fussing with stuff. I've got the cash register, of course. My niece and nephew, who are 14 and 12 now, have been a really big part of my studio. They have a very good time helping me out.
[0:05:28] BB: Oh, that’s great.
[0:05:29] ES: Yeah, and just want it to be as inclusive as possible. Had some kids' workshops and just trying to get going, while balancing the teaching, and as you all know.
[0:05:40] LHL: Yes. Can we rewind to back where it all began as you as a creative?
[0:05:47] ES: Yes.
[0:05:47] LHL: How did it all start?
[0:05:49] ES: Like, really way back?
[0:05:51] BB: Yeah. Way back machine. That’s kind of a –
[0:05:53] ES: Okay. Right. I don't know. As a kid, I loved making stuff. I told this story in grad school about there was a pile of lumber in our yard. I just would make weird stuff. I'm not really sure if that was the beginning. I've always liked to have my hands be busy, whatever it was, whether it's the garden, or it's making books, or it's making sculpture, sewing. I went to high school in New Hampshire and have a great experience. We've added that or not. I don't know. Which is why I teach. I mean, that informs it, right, for sure.
Then I went to art school and discovered like, oh, this is a thing I could do. Then we veer off. I always tell my students, I had an illustrious career in restaurants for a long time.
[0:06:41] BB: As many artists had.
[0:06:42] ES: Yeah, many artists have. But then, for me, it was the teaching. When I think it was 29, and I started subbing, and it really clicked. It was the first time I felt like, oh, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. Then it was a natural relationship with the art making as well, because I got to work with students. I mean, I don't think I knew when I was a kid that I like, this was going to be the career. I don't know that any of us do. But then, I did.
[0:07:06] LHL: You did. That’s amazing.
[0:07:07] ES: In my third-grade yearbook, it says, future occupation - artist.
[0:07:10] LHL: Oh, my God. I love it.
[0:07:11] ES: I mean, I'm a graphic designer, but I also have an art studio, so I think it counts.
[0:07:15] BB: Yeah, it totally counts.
[0:07:16] LHL: Sorry. But once in a while, I think you're just jet set.
[0:07:20] ES: Yeah. Yeah. I have found things that I wrote in college where I wrote, “I'm going to be a teacher.” I thought, wow, I don't remember realizing that.
[0:07:29] BB: Wow. Yeah.
[0:07:30] ES: Even though I had been teaching in college as well. I think I had that big period of having a really good time and working in the clubs and whatever. You have to persist, right? You figure out all of these jobs that you have and how to keep it going. My students really motivate me in that way, because I'm trying to tell them how to do this, like how to really persist and convince them that you may have to do some stuff that you don't want to do, but that's just what – that’s how you keep going. Yeah.
I think community is the biggest, you know, that construction of community wherever we are, it fuels me, it fuels everything I'm doing. That's really where I've landed. That's where I want the focus to be.
[0:08:20] LHL: That’s awesome.
[0:08:20] BB: That's what's really important. Curious to hear what brought you into the teaching world, because you went to school for art. Where'd you go to school?
[0:08:28] ES: I went to Maine College of Art. It was called Portland School of Art, everybody out there. We were the last class out as Portland School of Art. We had to make sure the dean, we had to make sure everyone knew that. I still have my Portland School of Art pencil on my bookshelf. Yeah, went there. Really, I was like, oh, this is amazing. I love school all of a sudden. Majored in sculpture, which my parents were like, “Oh, my god.” I mean, I really loved every minute of it, to be honest. Then graduated in state in Portland and worked away and kept making stuff, but lost my way a little bit. I was doing stuff in music. Then got back to it after. Then found teaching. I moved. So silly.
I started subbing in my district and then moved, wound up getting a job luckily, because our teacher at the high school decided to take a leave. I got to start there and did my certification through the school, which was amazing. I loved it. I loved my job. It was –
[0:09:35] BB: Middle, elementary, high school.
[0:09:36] ES: High school.
[0:09:36] BB: High school.
[0:09:37] ES: Yeah. I thought I'm never going to teach high school. I'll teach little kids. Then I wound up teaching at my alma mater.
[0:09:46] BB: Oh, wow.
[0:09:46] ES: It's my high school. I'm walking in the door on the first day like, oh, boy.
[0:09:51] BB: Wow.
[0:09:52] ES: But it was incredible. I have really incredible colleagues and experiences and colleagues that had been my teachers, which was really fun. One of them kept saying to me, “You have to stop calling me Mr. Marshall,” and I couldn't do it.
[0:10:08] BB: Yeah. Oh, that's wonderful. It was because of the substituting, that's what got you into it, and 25 years later.
[0:10:14] ES: Yeah. 25 years later.
[0:10:15] BB: Now you are teaching future teachers.
[0:10:17] LHL: That's really, really exciting.
[0:10:18] ES: Yes. It's really exciting. It's really terrifying.
[0:10:20] BB: Yeah. All right. Let's see, you went to art school. You did some stuff in music. You became a substitute. You went back to –
[0:10:29] ES: Went back to school.
[0:10:30] BB: Went back to school to get your certification.
[0:10:32] ES: No.
[0:10:33] BB: Oh, no? Okay.
[0:10:34] ES: I got my cert, because I got a job. This is back when there was critical shortage, I think. I can't even remember. But I got an alternative certification. Did all the work that I had to do and had mentors. Then, I think, six years in, I decided to go to grad school, because I thought if I didn't get my MFA, I never was going to do it. Then I remember thinking, leaving my job in 2007, right before everything collapsed in 2008.
[0:11:02] BB: Oh, gosh.
[0:11:03] ES: I was like, “Oh, God.” But it was an incredible experience. I mean, I hate student loans and I hate debt and all that stuff, but I would not change, because the community I gained through my grad school experience also was really incredible, and still is. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah.
[0:11:22] BB: Can you tell us a little bit about what you are currently making? What is your practice like now?
[0:11:28] ES: Joel made fun of me once, because I kept saying, “That's a great question,” in an interview and he wouldn't let me forget it for sure, so I'm trying to not do that.
[0:11:35] LHL: That's a pretty boring question, Becky.
[0:11:39] ES: It's a terrible question. I am sewing a lot. I took this amazing class with an artist named Cal Patch, who's in New York, and she does these online classes that are outstanding. I mean, what a model.
[0:11:50] BB: Is she a fiber artist?
[0:11:52] ES: Yeah. Yeah. Makes garments, everything. She's got this class, two one-year classes that you can take and you meet once a month virtually and there's this whole community that gets built with all these people taking these courses. I just needed a little kick after moving and resettling, and I have been sewing every night for almost a year.
[0:12:12] BB: That's fantastic.
[0:12:13] ES: Yeah. Those, I don't know what they're going to be.
[0:12:15] BB: What is it that you're sewing? You're not sewing a quilt, or clothes?
[0:12:17] ES: I’m not. They're like little drawings to me. I'm calling them Stitchery.
[0:12:24] LHL: Oh, that's a good name.
[0:12:25] ES: Yeah. I couldn't quite get to the garments yet, which I would like to do, but I just was really playing with stitching as mark making. Now I've got this ridiculous pile of stitchings.
[0:12:36] BB: Are you hand stitching these, or it’s on a machine? Wow.
[0:12:39] ES: Yeah. Hand stitching, but I do a lot of machine stitching as well. That's been, where I've been sitting. And still making books and still working with Tyvek. I've been making all these little things that wind up in the shop. Then I make these weird dioramas with my niece, like my pretty pony on the moon, or whatever. It's just fun to see these little arrangements. I don't have a big project. I'm going to be printing in March in California, which I'm excited about.
[0:13:10] BB: Nice.
[0:13:11] ES: But I'm not sure where – I feel like it doesn't matter right now. I really don't know where it's all going to go and I'm okay with that.
[0:13:18] LHL: That's great. Sometimes you get so locked into like, what is the result going to be? Then, I think that impedes whatever –
[0:13:27] ES: I do today.
[0:13:28] LHL: - the natural result could be.
[0:13:28] ES: I don't know about you guys. I feel like, COVID, well, everybody says this. I just switched. I had done all this work for a show. Made all the work. Did hung the show. Did all the stuff. Then that was it. Did another show, which actually opened just before COVID hit and I couldn't even access the work for a couple months.
[0:13:48] LHL & BB: Wow.
[0:13:49] ES: Just the way it goes. I think that I'm over that model. I'm much more interested in what you're doing here.
[0:13:56] BB: Yeah, the way that art is accessed now is it can be so many different things.
[0:14:03] ES: Oh, yeah.
[0:14:04] BB: That's why I'm so eager to hear how the store will evolve, too.
[0:14:08] ES: I know. I don't know. I just will see. But that's the whole thing, right? How are these things accessible to everybody? Not just, I don't know, not just going to New York and hoping to get into something. Or, I'd think that making the opportunities for ourselves is what we have to do now.
[0:14:26] BB: Yeah. That's a really good point. Because it's a hustle, no matter what – it’s a hussle as an artist. But yeah, you do have to invent it sometimes.
[0:14:36] ES: Yeah. I'm definitely okay with that. There was an exhibit at Mass Mocha in fall of 24 called the Plastic Bag Store. I don't know if either of you guys got to go.
[0:14:44] BB: I did not. what? You know what, was it last – Oh, it was in 24. Yes, okay.
[0:14:50] ES: It was the end of 24. No?
[0:14:54] BB: I wasn't able to. I'd gone down to Mass Mocha and then they were striking the day that I went and I couldn't cross the barrier.
[0:15:01] ES: Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Well, I didn't get to go either. I had two kids.
[0:15:06] BB: None of us would.
[0:15:07] ES: None of us got to go. Something came up when we weren't able to go. But I really got into that idea of – I mean, I'm not recycling single-use plastics. But just this idea of everyone coming in and being a part of this thing, in whatever, and it could be transactional, or it could be – I'm having conversations with my elderly neighbors that are magical. They stop in and they check on me and they bring me soup, or whatever. We had this great cafe next door run by an incredible young person, who actually was a student of mine at the high school.
[0:15:40] BB: Oh, my gosh.
[0:15:42] ES: Though I really am into that kind of –
[0:15:45] LHL: Community, community building. Yes, totally.
[0:15:48] BB: You did a lot during COVID as well to create opportunities for people in the art. Can you tell us about The Art Table?
[0:15:54] ES: Yeah. The Art Table and Brick House are all melding for me. Yeah, as we all did, we all went home one day and stayed home. I was teaching at NHIA and I had a car full of paper that I just gotten donated. My niece and nephew were with me three days a week doing their school online, and we played a lot. It was not a fun time, but we had a good time. We just did all these cool games and we were outside all the time and we were making a ton of stuff. My mom is a huge influence in terms of community service. She's been a huge influence on her community in Peterborough for years and taught me to do that. I don't know. I had paper bags and all this stuff and we started making kits that we thought people could come take.
[0:16:44] BB: Art supply kits and things?
[0:16:46] ES: Art supply kits. Then it just took off. People started dropping off random things, like two big bags of mason jar lids. No jars, just lids. I thought, we could figure something out and we did.
[0:16:58] LHL: Wow.
[0:16:59] ES: We set up this little table. I would put the bags out with signs and all that stuff, again, back to me, bossing everybody around and playing store. People came. Then they took rolls of paper to make posters, and then the anti-racist movement really kicked up and artists across the country were offering their work to print out and we would give those away, and friends are printing them. What was really cool though is when older kids started to come to the table to take roles to make their own posters.
[0:17:28] BB: Oh, wow.
[0:17:29] ES: That was awesome.
[0:17:30] LHL: The evolution of that. Just something that was like, well, we have these bags and let's just see.
[0:17:35] ES: Let’s just see.
[0:17:36] LHL: No doubt, you're helping folks who are – we're all like, stir crazy, we're experiencing something no one's ever experienced in our lifetime. You get to help people unlock their creativity and hopefully, that blossoms to a lifelong practice for some folks.
[0:17:51] ES: That's hopefully, right? What was exciting is that I partnered with my library, because we thought, oh, well, we should do directions, or instructions. Nobody cared. They took the bags and they dumped the bags out and they made this great stuff. Then I would have adults say, “Can I take a kit?” I’m, “Of course.” It was really cool to see.
[0:18:11] BB: Joyful opportunity, too.
[0:18:12] ES: It was. It was.
[0:18:15] BB: It's sad that here's this horrible thing that happened to our world, that forced us to separate from each other, but yet, this was something that was bringing people together. Now that we are not in that terrible state of that particular kind, we're in maybe a different state –
[0:18:32] LHL: Totally.
[0:18:33] BB: But yet, we need more of that. We need more of that. But it takes time. And because you had time, you had the resources.
[0:18:41] ES: Yeah.
[0:18:43] BB: If only we as a community, or we're able to do that more actively in our regular lives and we don't have to have a shutdown, or lockdowns to influence that. Hopefully, maybe this is what your space is going to be able to unlock. It's also ultimately something that Creative Guts is trying to do, too.
[0:19:04] ES: Yeah. I feel like that's – I want to get back to it. I moved. I also honestly thought the project would have a life of its own and then die. Then it wasn't dying. People were incredibly generous and they started sending cash as well.
[0:19:18] BB: That’s great.
[0:19:20] ES: My scissors, or glue sticks, or whatever it was. Then it got a little bit to the point where I was like, I don't know if I can keep up. I had the table in Keene and a table in Peterborough and was thinking about really moving it forward and life happens. Now that I have Brick House, it is something I'm really interested in. I'm really interested in those places, like Turnip Green and Nashville and Ruth's reusable resources in Portland, Maine. That's retirement goal.
[0:19:45] BB: Can you explain what those organizations are?
[0:19:47] ES: It's like an art material clearing house. I might be dating myself, but the Boston Children's Museum used to have this great room at the end of your visit. As a kid, you could go fill a bag for five bucks. My mom was amazing, more stuff. It was nothing better. I have this dream of having a corner where that can exist again. I'd like to get the kits back. I had someone ask me to do kits for his nieces for Christmas, and I had a blast putting them together again.
[0:20:20] BB: Oh, that’s great.
[0:20:21] ES: It's just so –
[0:20:22] LHL: That’s satisfying.
[0:20:23] ES: Yeah. They came up to be with me in the studio a couple of weeks after Christmas and oh, man.
[0:20:29] BB: What a great idea. I love that. I love to do that. Yeah.
[0:20:33] LHL: Backing up a bit, I love that you also connected community service with activism in a way. I think that's really cool. It's okay if you don't, but do you incorporate activism into your own art with anything that you create?
[0:20:45] ES: I'm so glad you asked that. Oh, I just had a good question.
[0:20:47] LHL: That good question.
[0:20:49] ES: I'm such a Joelstin, Joel. It's such a navigation. I don't know how you guys feel. I do. I mean, I have a letter press in my shop, so I can really get right to the point if I want to. I have done a couple of things over the past year. Yeah. I do. I do some broadsides and the quote, a refusal to comply is really on my mind right now. Yes, there is some of that. It's been really interesting. Do you know Ryan who writes on things in Portland, Maine?
[0:21:20] BB: I think I might follow him.
[0:21:21] ES: You probably do. He's incredible.
[0:21:22] LHL: I think so. It sounds really familiar.
[0:21:24] ES: Yeah. He designed two anti-ice posters that are up in many of the stores in Portland. I printed them out and have them. I'm waiting to see what I'll do in my little shop. There’s a big socio-political split in my town, of course, and in our area and in our state. I've been thinking a lot about bigger steps. What do I do? What are my statements? How do I talk about it with students, or not? I mean, I am lucky to teach at the college level, but that's been fraught, too. I think I've been – We've never lived in a time like this. That responsibility of trying to work that in and get that out there is very much on my mind. There's one thing to make a poster to go protest and conquered, but then, what else is made? Yeah.
[0:22:20] LHL: Creative Guts is hosting an event. Dear listener, I'm sorry. It's probably already passed by the time this has come out. But in February, we're going to have Arts Plus Advocacy, a live panel discussion with –
[0:22:31] ES: Oh, great.
[0:22:31] LHL: - three creatives, moderated by Creative Guts Joe, and hosted at Mosaic Art Collective in Manchester.
[0:22:37] ES: Oh, okay.
[0:22:39] LHL: That's Sunday, February 22nd, on an afternoon. I think it'll be a really amazing conversation and a really appropriate time conversation.
[0:22:48] ES: Don't you find it so interesting that arts are being cut and threatened everywhere, right? At the same moment, every library I work with, every grant I've been writing, everybody is dying for more programming, more accessibility. It just blows my mind. I mean, a lot of lawmakers, or folks that can be decision makers, I think they just don't see the value in something that they can't necessarily control, commercialize, or profit from. Just –
[0:23:18] LHL: Good point. It’s stuff. And it just also, or if you're not – I don't want to paint lawmakers into these evil doers up at the top, but some people just think it has a extra, a fun, a superfluous like, if we have extra, we'll give it to the artists, but otherwise, it's not a necessity where we know that's not true. But yeah.
[0:23:43] ES: I think it just makes us even scrappier. The word special makes me nuts. When my students are at – my future art educators are talking about specials and I'm like, “That's not allowed in this room.”
[0:23:54] BB: Oh, but that drives me nuts. We are not a special.
[0:23:58] ES: We're not a special. I know.
[0:24:01] BB: We are special. We are not –
[0:24:04] LHL: If you're not in the teaching world, what does that exactly mean?
[0:24:07] BB: They're not –
[0:24:08] LHL: Not essential, like essentially?
[0:24:09] BB: Right. It's not considered an academic class. Even though, it is –
[0:24:13] ES: Like an elective year? Yeah. Yeah.
[0:24:16] LHL: PE, art, music.
[0:24:18] BB: Humanities, things that aren't – English and history.
[0:24:21] LHL: Just the stuff that makes us human.
[0:24:22] BB: Yeah. And stuff that – Ooh, yay, yay, yay.
[0:24:25] ES: Statewide, we have to be on it all the time, because there's stuff coming through left and right about different bills being pushed through. The latest one is the PE. Do you know about that?
[0:24:35] BB: No. Ay-yay-yay.
[0:24:36] ES: They want the requirement of a college degree to be removed for PE teachers.
[0:24:41] BB: What?
[0:24:42] ES: Yeah. Obviously, we're talking about it. The hearing was in early January. Students went, which was great.
[0:24:51] LHL: Oh, good.
[0:24:51] ES: I talk about this a lot with my students, too, because they need to pay attention to the state stuff, too, and not just the national.
[0:25:00] LHL: Yeah, your local government impacts so much of your life directly.
[0:25:02] ES: Absolutely. Yeah. My colleague, when she was talking about her experience, going to the hearing, turned around and looked at me and said, “You're next.” I was like, we always are. That panel discussion sounds fabulous.
[0:25:16] LHL: Yeah. Really looking forward to it.
[0:25:17] ES: It’s at CSAW?
[0:25:18] LHL: Well, Mosaic. Same ballpark. Yeah. You have limited to space, so RSVP a ticket if you want to home. Sorry, listener. You probably can't make it, because I think it's in the past when this comes out. We’re hoping.
[0:25:34] BB: We’re recording it. Are we recording it?
[0:25:36] ES: Oh, yeah. You can listen to it. Yes. I just mean, you can't attend at this point, unless you have a time machine. But we will have other live panels.
[0:25:44] BB: Erin, you're talking about how your mom really has a big influence in terms of the way that you give back and service. Can you talk to us a little bit about what other kinds of artists, or just what else has influenced your approach to art and your style? That's a great question. Right? I didn't do it.
[0:26:05] ES: Oh. I feel a lot like Joel said. If I'm working on something and I'm thinking to myself, this is dope. I really like this. I really like this. I love to learn new things, and sometimes it gets to the point where I've collected too many things and I need to sit down and really work through, before I add another thing. I'm sitting here in this amazing studio looking around at everything that is being made in here like, oh, my God. Look at this. I do think that family and the human experience and caregiving, I don't have my own kids, but other caregiving that I've done has now re-centered me into really thinking about, is it so important to me that I have this solo show and tons of people? Is that important to me? Because I don't think it is anymore. I'd rather have a community event where art isn't this –
[0:27:01] BB: Unattainable thing. Yeah.
[0:27:02] ES: Yeah. Or unattainable for people. I remember walking into a gallery in New York City years ago with my mom, and I used to go all the time. I planned the day, so I was excited about where we were going and we walked into one gallery and the person never even looked up. Then my mom asked for some kind of, she wanted a little zine, or a little information, and –
[0:27:22] LHL: Brochure, or something.
[0:27:24] ES: He looked at us like we were – I thought, we're out, yeah, and we left. That stuff is intimidating, I think. Now I'm like, I wish you could have had a pretty woman moment. Like, big mistake. Huge. I do wish that in times I had thought more about that, I think we do now, right? As you get older, it's like, things just drop away. It's really exciting. I'm not really sure that answered the question.
[0:27:52] BB: Well, no, I mean, it does. I mean, I think you're talking about creating an experience. You're creating things that are meaningful and personal to you, but are accessible to everybody, right? That inspires you. Life inspires you, and that comes out in your creation. I think that's one thing that scares a lot of people about the art world is those galleries, where the work is not accessible, where you don't feel welcome.
[0:28:16] ES: Not at all.
[0:28:18] BB: Or it is very elite. If you don't get it, then you just give up on art. There's so much more to the world of art and just the practice and the creative energy. Or even just the conversation that comes from the ideas and the crafting of something and the community that it can build, that's more important, I think.
[0:28:42] ES: Absolutely. You are both doing that. You have been since my show at The Lyceum Gallery, which was –
[0:28:47] BB: 2019, I think? Yeah.
[0:28:51] ES: Here now, I think that's what interests me much more so now. I mean, I love making objects and products, but I'm much more excited about – I had some women come down to my studio a couple of Friday nights ago and one of them is maybe, I hope you're listening to this, switching gears and careers and doing these incredible floral things. Another friend, new friend was saying that she felt like her artist was so crushed down inside of her that she doesn't even know how to start getting it out. I thought, “Oh, my God.” I think that's part of it, too. That's why I teach. I mean, I think that's why we all – I want my students to feel like they can do this, and do this, and make it accessible and fun. Also, fun. Can it just be fun sometimes?
[0:29:40] LHL: I know.
[0:29:41] BB: You're teaching future art educators. How are you helping them to balance the world of teaching and continuing to create? Because that was definitely not something that was covered in my art education program, and it's been one of the biggest challenges of my career is to maintain my own practice, while pouring so much creative energy into my teaching practice.
[0:30:04] ES: Oh, and my God, Becky, you and Joe, from the tales I've heard of the things that you do, it is like, you guys deserve medals for the amount of creativity that you put into your work.
[0:30:14] BB: We've gotten some medals, so that’s good.
[0:30:15] ES: Well, there you go.
[0:30:16] LHL: You should get more medals.
[0:30:18] ES: Yeah, that is so true. I mean, all of the experiences, the way that you have run the gallery, the things you do for your students, it's so much work to balance the two. I'll be honest, I don't know if I'm convincing them. I feel really strongly about modeling behavior. I think sometimes they're like, “What is she talking about?” It's funny, I've really been encouraging my students to find out what their professors are doing and feel like, this is what I'm talking about all the time, because I think the split between art ed programs and fine art programs is it just should not be there. Cassie Stevens' book, art teacher in 101, is that's what they have to read.
[0:31:00] BB: Oh, good.
[0:31:01] ES: The two things are, one, if my students choose. You need to figure out how to be a creative and to be an educator. I think I have a lot of students who are – they get it and they really want to do this and they ask me lots of questions. It's like, oh, my God. We didn't have to pay huge amounts of rent when we got out of art school. Just thinking about. But I'm always like, these are the things you guys can do. I'm teaching silk screen, screen printing right now. They're really into the democratic multiple and think about earth jam, think about getting your message out there. Those kinds of things. I mean, I think sometimes they just think I'm bonkers.
[0:31:43] BB: Those are the best professors. The ones they think they're a little bit bonkers. We're talking about you, Joel and Jason.
[0:31:52] ES: And Joe.
[0:31:53] BB: And Joe, too.
[0:31:57] ES: I want them to have fun, too. I think that's a big thing.
[0:31:59] LHL: Oh, yeah.
[0:32:01] BB: You have to.
[0:32:02] LHL: It's your passion. It's still work, but you can still find such fulfillment and joy in it, so that it's just like, “Oh, I can't wait to go home and make.”
[0:32:12] ES: Exactly. Oh, it's the best. I can't wait to go home and sew. Yeah. Yeah.
[0:32:17] LHL: I think it might be time for rapid fire, unless you have any other major ones?
[0:32:20] BB: Oh, my gosh. I can't believe we've already gotten to this point. I have so many more –
[0:32:25] LHL: Well, we still have time. If you want one or two more.
[0:32:28] BB: All right. Well, I do have a great question.
[0:32:29] ES: Okay. You do.
[0:32:30] BB: It's specific to – Yeah. You hear that, Joel? Joel's going to be dropped so many times.
[0:32:35] ES: I know. He’s going to be so psyched.
[0:32:36] BB: Here’s a great question. On your website, you talk about, I mean, clearly, you're a jack of many trades.
[0:32:41] ES: God.
[0:32:42] BB: Tell us about how you came to master the art of installing septic pipe and raking gravel for extended periods of time, because that is a very, very important life skill –
[0:32:51] ES: It is.
[0:32:51] BB: - that we should all know more about.
[0:32:54] ES: It's so funny, because I was just thinking about taking that off my website.
[0:32:56] BB: Oh, no, no, no. You have to leave it.
[0:32:59] ES: Well, first of all, congrats. Because I do that on purpose to see who actually reads it, because we do that.
[0:33:06] BB: It’s a test.
[0:33:07] ES: Yeah. I spent summers for 20 years working construction.
[0:33:12] BB: What? That's awesome.
[0:33:13] ES: Yeah, it was awesome.
[0:33:13] BB: 20 years?
[0:33:14] ES: Yeah, when I moved back home and started substitute teaching, I was also working construction. My brother had been in the business for a long time. So, did all kinds of crazy projects, and was always the little man. I was the grunt. I was either digging holes, or raking gravel. Yes, I know how to install septic pipe. I can run some machines in a basic fashion. I'm glad for those skills for sure. I worked for a contractor for a little bit as well, so some basic home building.
[0:33:47] BB: I think those are really important life skills, is to have a little bit of experience in things that – I mean, to know how a wall is being held up. Just basic construction knowledge, or building knowledge, plumbing. Because those are life skills that you know if a little bit of –
[0:34:05] ES: You will be using.
[0:34:06] BB: You can use them, and maybe you can save a little money in your future.
[0:34:09] ES: As a homeowner, I will not touch electricity. Yeah, I mean, when things go awry. I'm not at any point, if I went, I could knock out on my own at all right now. But just having that basic interesting. It was always, got to think about water. Where's water going to go? Water's going to get in. Now I'm always like –
[0:34:30] BB: Yeah. I think it makes you a more well-informed human, too. You've had this experience. It makes you more interesting as well. Not that I am gloating and being an interesting person –
[0:34:42] ES: But you are. So, gloat.
[0:34:44] LHL: Becky, you're boring now.
[0:34:45] BB: Now, let me talk about me for a sec. Well, before I was hired, but before my initial interview with The Derryfield School, the very first question, Jennifer MacConey and my predecessor asked me, is because of this degree I got in animal science. I know how to deliver a horse. It's on my resume as associates in animal science. While it does not apply to anything that I do, I had this experience, and it made me a more interesting candidate, I think –
[0:35:20] ES: Absolutely.
[0:35:21] BB: - for the school, and she opened with that. I think for our students to continue to engage in a range of experiences that get you into different populations, talking and communicating with a whole bunch of different people and get your hands dirty –
[0:35:33] ES: Yes, totally.
[0:35:35] BB: - learn how to do something gross and yucky, because it makes you value all the good stuff even more.
[0:35:42] ES: I mean, I know. I could tell job site stories, until the cows come home. I mean, I learned a lot about that community as well, and met some really interesting people. Those skills that people have are just incredible. I agree. I have a student who had an animal science degree as well. She came back to do her MAT at Plymouth and is just out there in the world killing it.
[0:36:03] LHL: That's awesome.
[0:36:04] BB: Cool. That's amazing.
[0:36:07] ES: Maybe I should put, let's see, video store clerk on my resume.
[0:36:11] LHL: You totally should.
[0:36:13] ES: My shop used to be a video store. I remember going in the 80s.
[0:36:16] LHL: Oh, my gosh.
[0:36:18] ES: Just that anomaly of video stores, it lasted like, for what? A minute, it felt like.
[0:36:24] LHL: Yeah. Well, let's see. I was in high school. 2002-2003. I graduated in 2003 from high school. Yeah, I was working at the video store then. So cool.
[0:36:36] BB: I wrote my first check in high school to a blockbuster.
[0:36:39] LHL: For what? $5?
[0:36:40] BB: No. For 76 cents.
[0:36:43] ES: Are you kidding?
[0:36:44] BB: A lollipop. I was afraid to write it for too much, because I didn't have anything in my bank account. I didn't want it to bounce. I was probably a sophomore in high school when I wrote my first check.
[0:36:53] LHL: That's the most adorable friggin thing that –
[0:36:57] ES: That's incredible. 76 is –
[0:36:58] BB: You can't even have checks anymore. I don't think. I can't remember the last time I wrote a check.
[0:37:02] ES: I still do sometimes.
[0:37:04] LHL: Can kids sign their names? Do they do cursive?
[0:37:06] ES: Oh, poorly. Horrendously.
[0:37:09] LHL: What do they do for their signature? Just a scribble?
[0:37:11] BB: An X. It's like, going back, make your mark.
[0:37:14] ES: Gosh.
[0:37:15] BB: An emoji.
[0:37:17] ES: If I write in cursive, you're like, “What is this?”
[0:37:21] LHL: Oh, yeah.
[0:37:21] BB: All us elders can speak in code.
[0:37:25] ES: Exactly.
[0:37:25] BB: All right. Oh, my gosh. We can definitely keep on talking forever. It is time for rapid-fire question.
[0:37:33] LHL: Ta, do, do, do. I love it.
[0:37:38] BB: As you may know, they are a series of quick questions, quick responses. Some probably tend to run a little longer than others, but that's okay. Way we go.
[0:37:48] ES: Okay. Ready.
[0:37:50] LHL: What other artist has influenced you the most?
[0:37:54] ES: Oh. I just was thinking about being rapid.
[0:37:57] LHL: We start with the hardest one.
[0:37:59] BB: I know. We really shouldn't do –
[0:38:01] LHL: We're going to rearrange them. Yeah. I think we need to start with the favorite senses. Yeah.
[0:38:06] ES: I have a top group of women artists who really, Kiki Smith, Lenore Taney, people really taking – Lenore Taney, taking, weaving off the loom, really enabled me to get where I was doing, where I was in making installation. Martin Perrier, Amos Kennedy, Hady Kyle, would be number one.
[0:38:26] BB: Nice.
[0:38:27] LHL: Awesome.
[0:38:28] BB: Good collection. What is your favorite color?
[0:38:31] ES: It is light green. In fact, the green that comes out when the trees just start that chartreusey green. That's my favorite.
[0:38:39] LHL: Lovely. What's your favorite scent?
[0:38:42] ES: You're going to – Oh, God. Evil bone water. Do you guys know what evil bone water is?
[0:38:48] LHL: No.
[0:38:48] ES: Acupuncturist. It's a Chinese medicine. It is this incredibly calming, relaxing. It's an analgesic and it just smells amazing. Right now it is, you got to try it.
[0:39:02] BB: What is it called again?
[0:39:03] ES: Evil bone water.
[0:39:04] BB: Evil bone water, everybody.
[0:39:05] ES: I'll send you a picture of that.
[0:39:06] LHL: That's never been said before on Creative Guts. I love it.
[0:39:09] BB: We get gasoline a lot. The evil bone water.
[0:39:12] LHL: Once or twice, we've had gasoline, which is the weirdest one to me. We had these folks.
[0:39:15] BB: It's my mom's favorite.
[0:39:16] LHL: Really?
[0:39:17] BB: I think it's horrible.
[0:39:18] LHL: Yeah, no. I love sawdust.
[0:39:20] BB: Oh, me too.
[0:39:20] ES: That's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[0:39:22] LHL: 100%. See, okay, that's not weird then, right?
[0:39:24] BB: No.
[0:39:25] ES: I was of thinking of my dad. Yeah, yeah. Wood shop.
[0:39:27] BB: All right. Favorite sound?
[0:39:30] ES: I love the sound of a room full of people folding paper. Like, cheap, rattly paper.
[0:39:36] LHL: That's a good one.
[0:39:37] ES: It's the best sound.
[0:39:38] BB: That is a very appropriate sound for you. I don't think a web designer would necessarily know that one. For somebody who teach books on book art, it tracks.
[0:39:50] LHL: What's your favorite texture to touch?
[0:39:50] ES: This one is hard. It's really hard –
[0:39:53] LHL: Tie beck.
[0:39:55] ES: He was like, anything crumpled. Denim. I like denim.
[0:40:00] LHL: Oh, that's a good one.
[0:40:02] BB: You are wearing denim.
[0:40:03] ES: I wear denim a lot. My friends are like, “Do you have anything else?”
[0:40:09] BB: Most inspiring location you have traveled to.
[0:40:12] ES: This is such a cool question. Really made me think about. I know that, well, no, I feel like I should say some big, amazing place. But it's Deer Aisle in Maine. Stonington, Maine.
[0:40:24] BB: Nice.
[0:40:24] ES: Yeah.
[0:40:25] LHL: Very cool. I'm going to ask you a question that's not on the sheet, because I always like to give one curveball, so they can't –
[0:40:30] ES: Love it.
[0:40:30] LHL: If a guest preps, they can't be ready. If you could live in any book –
[0:40:38] BB: That's a good one, Laura.
[0:40:42] LHL: Not like a printing press, but you know what I mean? It's like, what –
[0:40:48] ES: In any book?
[0:40:49] LHL: Yeah. Would you go to Hogwarts, or would you go to Gone with the Wind? I don't know why. That just –
[0:40:55] ES: Oh, my God.
[0:40:55] LHL: That would be a terrible time to live.
[0:40:57] BB: Sensibility.
[0:40:58] ES: It's a terrible time.
[0:40:59] LHL: Pride and prejudice.
[0:41:00] ES: My students were asking me today about Animal Farm, and we had this great conversation, because I made some – a friend how to show in 2020, and I don't want to live in Animal Farm, but –
[0:41:10] LHL: I was going to say, is that your answer?
[0:41:12] ES: No. Talking about that. Oh, my gosh. Anne of Green Gables. That would be a good one.
[0:41:16] LHL: Oh, that would be – I mean, we didn't have rights, but we’re cool.
[0:41:21] BB: That's true. We wouldn't have rights.
[0:41:24] ES: I feel like, then there's part of me that would want to live in a dictionary. Just to explore all of those –
[0:41:31] LHL: Oh, my God.
[0:41:32] BB: That's a great one.
[0:41:33] LHL: I never would have thought of that answer. That's awesome.
[0:41:36] BB: Good answer.
[0:41:36] LHL: All right.
[0:41:36] ES: Thank you. All right.
[0:41:39] BB: What's the last new thing that you've learned?
[0:41:42] ES: Oh, boy. I have been teaching, re-teaching myself macrame. I did it when I was a kid, and I don't remember any of it.
[0:41:50] LHL: Oh, yeah.
[0:41:51] ES: I've been playing around with that. Different stitches. Then I had an InDesign nightmare a few weeks ago. But I figured it out on my own-ish, and I was very proud of myself.
[0:42:04] BB: Nice. That’s good.
[0:42:05] LHL: Oh, there's nothing like when software is annoying.
[0:42:08] ES: So, so annoying. Yeah, any little tech thing that I really – I keep thinking my students are really tech savvy, but sometimes they're not as – So, padlet, or something like that I feel very snug about.
[0:42:22] LHL: I think it's because we've gone through so many generations of different tech that we're versatile and can just –
[0:42:27] BB: Figure it out.
[0:42:27] LHL: Yeah, the universal language of turn on, turn off.
[0:42:31] ES: Rotary phones.
[0:42:33] LHL: Blow on it. Yeah, seriously. Yeah.
[0:42:36] ES: Blow on it.
[0:42:39] LHL: Kids would have no clue what you –
[0:42:39] BB: They have no clue.
[0:42:40] LHL: They’d be like, “What now?”
[0:42:43] BB: Just blow on it. It's fun to watch.
[0:42:47] LHL: I know.
[0:42:47] ES: Oh, my God. It's fun. My niece and nephew are both pretty tech savvy, but they're also really not. I realized in teaching teachers, because I started with Zoom and all the stuff, and then one day I was like, I put it on a Lazy Susan in the middle of the table and I said, this is Jeff. The computer is Jeff. You need to start talking to the computer. You all need to turn him on the Lazy Susan. Then all of a sudden, I realized that they didn't know how to admit someone into the room.
[0:43:15] BB: What?
[0:43:15] ES: I'm getting so stressed out about Zoom issues during COVID and after, and then I realized, oh, my students don't know how to –
[0:43:22] LHL: Oh, wow. Yeah.
[0:43:23] ES: Yeah. That was another.
[0:43:25] BB: Yeah. We recently switched from Zoom to Google Meet for our services now, and I had no idea how to use the Google Meet.
[0:43:32] LHL: Hit video. Not as intuitive.
[0:43:34] BB: We used to Zoom.
[0:43:36] LHL: I know. You're in one camp or the other.
[0:43:38] BB9: Yeah. We switched. Now we're at Teams. What's happening?
[0:43:42] LHL: Yeah. Yeah. I prefer a good Discord server. That's my choice.
[0:43:47] ES: Okay. All right.
[0:43:49] LHL: All right. This is our clincher question. If you could go back in time, what advice would you give your younger self?
[0:43:55] ES: Stop worrying. Keep making stuff. Stop worrying about what people think. You'll get there. You'll figure it out. Really, just stop worrying.
[0:44:05] LHL: Good advice.
[0:44:06] BB: We all need to take care.
[0:44:07] LHL: You’d hear it right now.
[0:44:08] ES: Yeah, boys and else.
[0:44:10] BB: Erin, thank you so much. It's been wonderful to just tuck your ear and –
[0:44:13] ES: Oh, truly. Thank you, guys.
[0:44:13] BB: - hear about your background and experience, and some of the details about your life as an artist and educator. Thank you for what you do and for helping to inspire the future of our artists and our educators.
[0:44:26] ES: Well, same to you. Thank you guys so much for having me. Thank you for inspiring all of your students, all of your people, and this amazing community that you've created here.
[0:44:36] LHL: Yay. Thank you again, Erin. With that –
[0:44:39] ALL: Show us your creative guts.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:44:45] LHL: Another huge thank you to Erin for joining us on the show.
[0:44:49] BB: I love Erin.
[0:44:50] LHL: Oh, that was so fun.
[0:44:51] BB: It really was. What an easy conversation, too.
[0:44:55] LHL: Maybe it's just because you told me about her a few times, or many times over the years. But I also felt just from her personality, her open nature, I just felt like I knew her and we'd been friends for a long time.
[0:45:07] BB: Yeah, yeah. She's very, very down to earth, very relatable. I loved how she was talking about how her perception of the art world has shifted as she has matured as an artist and as an educator. Trying to create opportunities for the arts that are much more accessible to people in our community and our region and not making it this thing on a big pedestal.
[0:45:29] LHL: I feel like, everything she said was rooted in community. Community building, inspiring future generations, activism, community service. At the heart of it, it's like, she just cares about the community that she's in. I feel like I'm saying community too many times now.
[0:45:45] BB: Can't say community enough. It's exciting to see where Brick Art Studio will go, too, and being able to have her active studio practice in there, but being able to be a spot in her region in Hancock, New Hampshire for people to come and to enjoy and create and ultimately, continue to spread the wonderful world that is art.
[0:46:08] LHL: I know. Yeah. It was just such a great conversation. I feel like it just flew right by.
[0:46:13] BB: Always. Always. Well, you can learn more about Erin Sweeney by taking a look at the links in our episode description. You can find even more information in our website, creativegutspodcast.com.
[0:46:26] LHL: You can also find us, Creative Guts Podcast, on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and our Discord server.
[0:46:32] BB: Discord, Discord, Discord.
[0:46:33] LHL: And if you want to stay in the know, you should also join our newsletter list, which is on Substack. You can sign up through our website, creativegutspodcast.com.
[0:46:42] BB: As always, we are so grateful for friends of the show, Rochester Museum of Fine Arts. Thank you to our friends for their support.
[0:46:49] LHL: And a big thank you to Art Up Front Street, Studios and Gallery and Exeter, for providing a space where Creative Guts can record.
[0:46:55] BB: As you heard from Laura earlier in the episode, we are so grateful to Kennebunk Savings Bank for being an official sponsor of the podcast. Thank you.
[0:47:04] LHL: If you love listening and appreciate the work that our small nonprofit does, you can make a donation, leave us a review, interact with our content on social media, purchase some merch, whatever you're able to do, we appreciate you.
[0:47:16] BB: We really do, guys. This is really important for us. It helps us in so many ways.
[0:47:20] LHL: Yes.
[0:47:21] BB: Any little bit of support, fiscally, or even again, those comments, those reviews, they really help our show. Please, please help us out there.
[0:47:30] LHL: Thank you for tuning in. We'll be back next Wednesday with another episode of Creative Guts.
[END]