In this special live episode of Creative Guts, recorded in partnership with Mosaic Art Collective, we gather a panel of artists, organizers, and advocates to talk about something that feels especially urgent right now: the role of the arts in shaping our communities here in New Hampshire.
In this special live episode of Creative Guts, recorded in partnership with Mosaic Art Collective, we gather a panel of artists, organizers, and advocates to talk about something that feels especially urgent right now: the role of the arts in shaping our communities here in New Hampshire.
Joining the discussion are Portsmouth artist Richard Haynes, Jr., activist mixed-media artist Brenda Noiseux, and Aimee Terravechia, Executive Director of 603 Equality and co-founder of the New Hampshire Cultural Review. Together we unpack the opportunities and challenges facing artists in the Granite State, the narratives shaping how communities value the arts, and the small but meaningful actions creatives can take to support advocacy without burning out.
Moderated by Creative Guts co-host Joe Acone, this conversation leans into the messy, honest reality of advocacy work. Ideas are explored in real time, questions are left open, and the panel invites all of us to think a little more deeply about what it means to support the arts in our communities.
Huge thanks to Mosaic Art Collective for hosting this event. Mosaic Art Collective would like to thank The Norwin S. and Elizabeth N. Bean Foundation for their generous support in helping to make this discussion possible.
Listen to this episode wherever you listen to podcasts or on our website www.CreativeGutsPodcast.com. Connect with us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Discord.
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Any views or opinions expressed by our hosts or guests do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Creative Guts.
[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:00] JA: I'm Joe Acone, and you're listening to Creative Guts.
[EPISODE]
[0:00:16] JA: Hi, everybody. How are we doing today?
[0:00:18] MALE: Good.
[0:00:19] JA: Awesome, right on. Welcome. Thank you so much, everybody, for being here. I wanted to take a moment just to thank Mosaic Art Collective and Creative Guts for organizing this event and creating space for this panel discussion about arts and advocacy in our scrappy little state of New Hampshire. Creative Guts would also to thank Kennebunk Savings Bank for being a sponsor of this podcast. Most of all, a huge thank you to all of you as a start. Thank you. Appreciate it.
All right, so this conversation feels especially right now. The arts in New Hampshire are navigating funding uncertainty, cultural tension, and political division, and at the same time, incredible creativity and resilience. The question of what art does in a community and whether it matters is an abstract. It's immediate. An advocacy doesn't only mean protest signs, or policy debates. It can mean storytelling. It can mean visibility. It can mean who gets supported and who gets heard. It can mean whether we can build spaces like this one, where we're in right now.
Today's conversation is being recorded live and will be released as an upcoming episode of Creative Guts. What we talk about here won't just stay in this room. It'll ripple outward into our community. That said, I wanted to offer something upfront, permission to be a little raggedy for the panelists and for all of us. This doesn't have to be polished. Ideas don't have to be fully formed. We can think out loud. Advocacy is messy. Art is messy. Growth is messy. My hope is that this feels less like a lecture and more like a shared experience. None of us have perfect answers, but together we might leave with better questions and clearer next steps.
Without further ado, let me introduce our panelists today. Richard Haynes, Jr., he-him is a Portsmouth-based artist originally from Charleston, South Carolina, a Vietnam Air Force veteran with an MFA from Pratt Institute. Richard is known as the crayon master for his bold semi-abstract figures confronting race, identity, and American transformation. He currently serves as Associate Director of Admission for Diversity at New Hampshire at UNH and his work is held by the Curry Museum and other institutions. Please give Richard a round of applause.
Brenda Noiseux, she-her, is the New Hampshire based activist artist who uses mixed media to spark conversation. Working with handcrafted local and recycled materials, often grown or processed at home, her work invites close to looking and deeper engagement. Her exhibition span regional and national spaces. Please, give her a round of applause.
We also have with us today Aimee Terravechia, she-her, she's the Executive Director of 603 Equality, advocating for inclusive LGBTQIA+ policy across New Hampshire, a writer, organizer, and NH native with a background in journalism and nonprofit leadership. She also co-founded the New Hampshire Cultural Review in response to major arts funding cuts in the state. Give her a round of applause, please.
Also, I'm Joe Acone, he-him. I'm a board member and co-host of Creative Guts, portrait painter and Chair of Arts and Design at The Derryfield School, as well as your humble moderator for this event. Hi, everybody. Glad to have you all here.
We'll spend about 40 minutes in conversation and then open it up to you for questions. This is a dialogue, not a lecture. With so much perspective on this stage, we'll be sure to be intentional about making room for one another as we go. With that, let's set the scene. For anyone who isn't deeply plugged into New Hampshire, New Hampshire's arts landscape, maybe you've been to the Curry or once or twice, or caught a show at The Palace, but you're not living in these policy conversations every day. Let's zoom out. Panelists, if someone new moved to New Hampshire tomorrow and asks, what's the art scene like here, how would you answer?
[0:04:25] RH: When I moved here, it was 1989 in Portsmouth. It was busy as an art scene. It was on Islington Street. It was throughout downtown Portsmouth. Every time a store went out of business, it became a gallery on the first floor. Then all of a sudden, what happened is the art community built community. Art builds community, right? Builds artists. But then, the artist builds the community, because theater is going on, paintings and theater and dance and ballet, all kinds of stuff that's happening in Prescott Park.
Then all of a sudden, the realtors got clued to this. More people are coming in. People are wanting to move into Portsmouth. You go to Portsmouth now, it's a little city on that west side of Portsmouth. All of a sudden, before you realize is, artists can't afford to rent these spaces, so artists are leaving. They're going to Dover. Dover is getting hot and really vibrant with the arts. Then they moved to Somersworth. and from Somersworth to Spalding. Art builds community. Community builds artists.
No different than what happened in the village. I was brought up in New York City. Down in the village on a Saturday and a Sunday, you can go there and the arts were on the street. I mean, loaded. Then all of a sudden, we have Soho, empty factories. Before we realize it, the artists are in these buildings, building up Soho. It becomes busy on the weekend. Then before we realized it, the wealth moved in and artists had to leave. They go to Brooklyn, right? They go now to Chelsea. Chelsea, west side, Manhattan, the abandoned buildings. Artists go in. Floors and floors in these factories of galleries. Before you realize it, what happens? Art builds community. The wealthy wants to move in, because it looks like it's really happening there. Before you realize it, the artists cannot afford to live in these buildings that have galleries. Art builds community, but communities must build the artists.
[0:06:58] JA: Yeah. I love that. Bringing it back home, New Hampshire. Either of you want to talk a little bit about the New Hampshire scene?
[0:07:06] AT: Yeah. I was born and raised in New Hampshire. I had the privilege of being able to also move out of the state. I lived in Boston for a little bit. I lived in Minneapolis for a little bit. I will say that New Hampshire is a state of villages. One of the things that I really cherish about this place is that there is a really diverse sense of place as you move throughout the state. Because of that, there's diversity from our art scene, too, diversity from our creative community. Yes, I agree. Art does build community. That looks very different as you move throughout the state, whether you're in the north country, or the sea coast, or the lakes region where I am, that looks very, very different. I think that's something to celebrate, too.
[0:07:47] BN: I'm going to take the controversial view. I also, born and raised in New Hampshire. Spent some time away. When I think of the art scene here, I think it's challenging. I'm going to come out and say that it's challenging. I think we have a diversity in some of the art, maybe not as much as I would like to see, but I also would like to see a diversity in how we appreciate the art. I think a lot of the art that we appreciate in New Hampshire happens to be decorative. A lot of, if anyone has ever spent any time with me, you'll hear me talk about landscapes and animals. A lot of galleries in New Hampshire celebrate landscapes and animals. Even our public art, murals have become very hot as public art in recent years. A lot of those are decorative.
I'm not against decorative art. I think they definitely have a place in how we beautify and see and enjoy our world. But I want art that challenges me. I want art that makes us think, art that makes us have conversations, art that's weird, pop-ups. I love this type of art. That is a piece that I find challenging in New Hampshire. That we have some of it. I will forever be grateful to Mosaic for being one of those places, for people who have been in Manchester, Monastery Arts back a few decades ago was a place in an abandoned warehouse type of space. We also have the bomb shelter for music, which was also an abandoned type of space. We just need more of that. We need to understand it's not just about arts education and the decorative value and the beautification value, but all of the value that comes from art. I find our art seems to be challenging in that way.
[0:09:27] JA: All three of you spoke to different aspects of painting a picture of what the New Hampshire art scene looks like and feels. I appreciate that you spoke to the challenging art, versus decorative art. I'm wondering, what is it about challenging art that maybe is not being as well supported, versus decorative art? I mean, we want to talk about arts in general, obviously, right? If you had to diagnose New Hampshire and the symptoms going on, how would you start?
[0:09:54] BN: I feel like that's a question for me, since I brought up the challenging part. But anyone is welcome to answer. Thanks, Richard.
[0:10:02] RH: New Hampshire was a real challenge for me to move in in ’89, right? A man of color. In New York City, I am a $225,000 a year photographer. Moved to New Hampshire, I'm a zero-dollar a year for three years. It drove me to a point of almost committing suicide. I couldn't make a living. Couldn't feed my family. But it gave me my art. Because I was very much like at the beginning, I’m just making pretty pictures. I just graduated from art school, so I was making pretty pictures. See, I could do arty stuff.
Then all of a sudden, the reality came is that I have to paint the journey in which I was taking the struggles of race, color. How do we change it? My changing it is to paint it the way it should be, as opposed to the way it is. If you know my work, I focus a lot on Jim Crow. No, I'm not blaming anyone of anything. It's just me being a caveman. Imagine digging up the cave work and going in those caves and looking in there. Culturally, we could see what those cave people were going through. 100 years from now, when people, if we have not changed in the world to understand that it's just the color, nothing else.
Our forefathers seduced us in thinking that I was less than. But you know what? That's not true. What I'm trying to do is to paint us together. I want my grandchildren and their grandchildren to see that we're human beings. We all bring value to this universe. I focus a lot on my Jim Crow images. If you look at my images, I'm focusing a lot on Jim Crow, because that's an era where it was really hard. What I'm doing in those images is I'm painting us together, as opposed to painting us apart, away from each other's. Hopefully, that could make a difference in who we are as a community. Alrighty? But you got to really look at the work. Look at my work. It's not a judgment. It's just my life that I'm living, things that I am dealing with. I just think that it's important.
Artists are cultural keepers and cultural makers. I'd like to make a difference. John and Yoko Ono saying, all we are saying is give peace a chance, talking about the Vietnam War came to an end. Alrighty? That is the power of heart. I'm utilizing it to literally change the way we think of each other's. Alrighty.
[0:12:58] AT: I'd like to underscore something that you just said, which is that art gives us the ability to one, make sense of what has happened in the world, makes sense of what is happening, what has happened historically, but also imagine, or reimagine a different way of being. I think that that's really, really powerful. It's powerful as a tool. That's part of the reason why we're having this conversation today, right, is to talk about the intersection of art and advocacy. It's also, maybe speaks to the point you raised earlier, Brenda, about why are certain types of art more celebrated, or valued in our state, or maybe have an easier audience than other forms of art.
I think as a state, we've had a lot of success in elevating things that are pretty and pleasing, but maybe less so that challenge us and make us imagine that different future. I'm excited to see what the future of the New Hampshire art scene is like, but I think that that's a really vitally important part of art and culture.
[0:13:59] BN: I love what you were talking about, what you're both talking about, too, in terms of seeing the world in a different way and also being a person of color in the state. For those who listened to this, I'm a Vietnamese-American. My mother is from Vietnam and I identify as a person of color, even though that was really interesting growing up in New Hampshire and what that journey has looked like. I think, too, when we think about the challenges of art and what's challenging to us in New Hampshire is also making sure that, yeah, I want more art. I'm always the person who wants more. Like, more, more, more, more, more, right? More decorative, but more weird and more interesting and more representational.
I think in that, too, that means that we expand the way that we think of bringing artists of color and LGBTQ+ artists into the circle. Because again, right now, that is one of our challenges, is making that space and making that real space. I think in some places, it may feel a little performative when we're making that space for those communities, but it's really great that we have people doing the work, like Aimee and Queer Elective.
I was just at Positive Street Art last night for a wonderful exhibition, as well with artists of color talking about their experience really ingrained into the show. We want to see more of that. That way, we're not – again, we're just having this wide diversity of the types of art, and then the artists that we include in what we're seeing as well.
[0:15:30] JA: I really appreciate that you highlighted some really strong grassroots organizations that are doing a lot of the hard work of lifting and elevating our community. Well, in the culture and the arts in Manchester and beyond, right? I'm wondering if any of you could speak to highlight more of those organizations, or talk a little bit about, perhaps, policy, or some of the challenges that have been put in place? Because, I think, we have very vital community of folks pulling it up from the bottom. It would be nice if we had some more support from the top, right? Can you speak a little bit to what you've seen, sort of trends, things that have been going on in our state? Feel free to speak to the obvious for folks who maybe don't know.
[0:16:12] AT: Yeah, I'm happy to speak to some of the policy things. But our state has seen historic cuts to the arts. We've had historic federal funding loss, but also historic state funding loss. Our state Council for the Arts has been essentially gutted. I had to speak at the state house earlier this week about something unrelated to arts for my day job at 603 Equality. But I called this out as a fight, or battle of everything, everywhere all at once. I think that what we see happening in the arts and culture with defunding and with legislators maybe unwilling to hear the arguments about why arts and culture are a vital part of a healthy state are the same things that we're seeing happening across the board, with rolling back of civil rights, with attacks in the LGBTQ community, with what we see going on to, with increasing activities with ICE, all of these issues are interconnected.
As we said earlier, art gives us this ability to both make sense of the world and its current state and to also imagine a different way of being, a different future. To me, it is no coincidence that we are seeing decreased access to arts in our state and decreased funding for arts in our state. I think that the artists are a powerful tool for advocacy work. I think that that means that we have to keep creating, despite it all.
[0:17:38] RH: Totally agree.
[0:17:39] JA: Totally agree. Same. Absolutely, right? There's a lot of work to be done, right? On all fronts. Arts, as you said, are vital to communicating the things and the changes that we want to see take place. It's not lost on you that we're here in Mosaic's beautiful show about the interconnectedness of politics and trying to speak out and speak truth to power through creative work to an imagery. We got any more success stories going on in the New Hampshire area, things that you've seen work well?
[0:18:08] RH: Yup. I'm on the board at the New Hampshire Art Association in Portsmouth. Last year, we did a diversity exhibition, probably for its first time in 85 years. No longer brushed aside. This year, we're working on an LGBTQ project. I've just did last year Pride. We did a mural project at Strawberry Bank, where we had the whole community come in and help us paint this mural, which is now the city just gave us the opportunity to hang this mural for one full year in two locations in the city. It's really building and opening up the doors, but building community.
[0:18:50] BN: I'm also on the board of the NHA. We have also an exhibition coming up in May. There's a call for art that's going out, but it's about gender and it's going to have a gender diverse lens, too. Definitely keep an eye out for that. I think that the more, too, that we can invite artists to think about what's going on and to be vocal about that. I use the term art loosely, obviously, visual artists, but also The Palace Theatre on this very street is having cabaret, which feels very poignant right now.
Arts in all of its forms, I think, are going to be vital for us to one, process the current moment, but also, like I said, imagine something else. I will also point out, too, something you said earlier, Richard, is that your pieces allow you to think through that connective thread that we have. I think that's another important piece of art, too, is we have a shared humanity with one another. I am a queer woman. My lived experiences are very different as a white person who grew up in New Hampshire for most of my life, than the two people sitting on either side of me. But we have a shared humanity, and there is a connective thread, too, that we can find through art and through culture and through story. There are things that are specific and unique to those experiences that we can explore through our art, but there's also things that are universal, too.
When we look at a piece of art, we can find those things. We can find those things that maybe illuminate someone else's experience that we hadn't necessarily thought of, a different perspective. It can be an opening experience. But then, there can also be a moment of connection, too, where you see someone else who has had maybe a similar struggle, or a similar thought. That can make you feel less alone in the world, too, and that's equally important.
[0:20:39] JA: Speaking to maybe some of the artists in the room, or artists that might be listening, given that we discussed a little bit about New Hampshire's market, art market, and the history of that. If I'm an artist that wants to unpack my identity and the intersections therein through my work, but I also want to get paid, what are some of the things that you've noticed that have worked for local artists and beyond that can help get their voice out there, so they can be genuine to themselves as well, while also getting a red dot next to their name? Sorry.
[0:21:15] BN: I'm happy to jump in. Full disclosure, I do not expect my pieces to sell. My pieces are definitely conceptual. As an activist artist, I'm really trying to encourage some conversation. If they do sell, I'm thrilled. But it's not the intent. That at least frees me up. I will say that making money as an artist is difficult. We're a creative household. My spouse is a writer, and it's a difficult thing. If folks are comfortable with doing things like making prints of their art, or other items that are more accessible to people, a lot of people, again, for that decorative, or even for that conversational piece, or that challenge, people are open to maybe not buying original art that may be out of their price range, but other options that could fit in their price range that are still supporting the artist. We've seen this across different artists mediums. Comic book artists have seen this as well. People used to pay for their original pages. That can be a lot of money for someone who just wants to be supportive and really love your art and could afford a $20 print today, because they also want to support five other artists in the room. That's a way that if that's something as an artist you're okay with, that's an area to explore.
[0:22:30] RH: My thinking is just continue to do your work. If you truly believe in what you are producing, then don't you dare stop, right? Even if it means you need to get another job, which I do. I have a corporate job that supports my art. My art, I had it years ago in Portsmouth. I had a lot of interior designers who would come in and talk about, “Oh, yeah. This one would match the couch and this one's going to match your bedroom color.” It's like, my story is more important than that.
I'm at a point where I only sell, I only want to sell an institution, museums, where a story that I am painting gets to be seen by everyone, as opposed to sitting in someone's living room for five years and the couch is no longer matching it, but they get rid of the paintings. No. I want this to be institutional that when they unearth it, you'll see the story. Just hang in there. Some 1990, it was sold for $250. Five years later, maybe $650. Now, $5,000 to $25,000 an image going strictly to institutions. Just believe in yourself and believe in the message that you are making.
[0:23:58] AT: I will add to that too, that I make art for me. I went to college with Joe, actually. I was introduced the other day when I was giving remarks. I was introduced as an artist and it gave me a like, “Oh, no. Don't call me, please. No one publicly has seen my art for over a decade.” I just make art, because it's part of my human experience and existence. I think I would probably die if I stopped writing and making art.
I am creative, because it is something I need for my humanity. Something that I learned when I was in graduate school for writing was less so, the question of how can you make money by selling what you're creating and more so, how can you build a creative life? I don't make money from my art, but I have tried really hard to curate in existence where my art can exist as part of a daily practice. I think that that has been the best way for me personally to exist.
[0:24:59] JA: I've heard it described, I think a former podcast guest, Gene Luen Yang, had some good advice on that, who was saying that focusing on the factory and not the car that the factory makes. Like building, curating a life, building a life that lets you find space to produce. It's not always easiest to produce work that's vital to expressing your own core, internal identity and things that you're feeling very strongly about. So, the support that's required. Much of that, too, can be being a part of a community, right? And engaging with that.
You're not alone, and you mentioned earlier that you were a state of villages. Get involved in your village, connect with them, connect the villages if you can. Be an ambassador. With that too, I'm curious if you have some insights around anybody up here, around how can folks be more engaged and be more involved? Any suggestions, any advice, things that have worked for you that helped folks that may be siloed, break out?
[0:26:01] BN: Be curious. That's the most important thing is ask questions, invite yourself over to people's houses. Figure out what's going on at gallery spaces. Go to events. I am a reformed introvert and now I do a lot of speaking for a living. It's a very unfamiliar place for me to be. But I have met so many amazing people and had so many amazing experiences because of it. As artists, you study the world around you. Art is a form of paying attention. And carry that through to the social aspects of your life, too. Be curious, get involved, and just figure out what's going on in your own neighborhood, because there's lots of cool stuff going on in your own neighborhood.
For connecting the different villages, there's a lot of really cool stuff going on. I will say, the Capital Center for the Arts in response to the defunding is hosting a monthly call to try and figure out how to get funding back for the state council for the arts. There's a collection of people in Concord that have started meeting monthly, also, too, within the arts community. There's all these grassroots things happening and they're starting to get connected together, too, which is really exciting. That all started from just people asking questions over drinks, or dinner saying, “I'm mad about this. I'm also mad about this. Let's do something.” Have drinks with your friends, or they can be non-alcoholic. But get fired up together. Be in community with people and don't be afraid to ask questions.
[0:27:29] RH: Yeah, find that thing that you're really interested in. Mine is diversity. There are lots of organizations that are dealing with the subject that I'm dealing with. I am literally in there as an artist trying to get them to literally, because there's funding in a diversity organization, but they managed to get me money to say, I'm going to run this workshop. It's amazing how that really works for you. Find out, what is your work all about. Now, go out in the community and share it. You believe in the ocean and saving the ocean and saving the planet and find those organizations, and I'm pointing out a particular person in this room. Does make extraordinary work. You find that organization that you're truly interested in. Find out how you're going to get in there, become a part of the board, become a member. Then when they need that image, you're there, all righty? It's really important to, once more, again, just believe in what you're doing and then just continue to do it whether people love it right now, or not. Believe me, it'll work for you.
[0:28:45] AT: That's so awesome. Mine is show up. I'm going to challenge everyone in this room and challenge your friends, challenge everyone you know. Show up. It doesn't matter if you're an artist, or an art supporter. Be aware of what's happening. Then just go. Just go. You don't have to spend money. I mean, artists also like, when you buy local art and not art from Target, or Amazon. That's cool, too. Bodies in a room showing interest is a huge way to support the arts.
We have small galleries, like Mosaic, like Seesaw, like A Plum Out in Dover. There are so many of these small places that need your support, just to show up for the work that they're doing. Again, that can be free outside of gas money, unless you could walk to it. But if you can throw some dollars their way, that's awesome, too. Totally get that. I think we forget how much power there is in just showing up. We know about it in advocacy and when we talk about going to protests and organizing sit-ins and speaking at the legislature, which is 20 minutes from here in Concord, everyone. Just so you know, we are so privileged in New Hampshire to be – and in Manchester to be 20 minutes away from our state house. Just throwing that out there.
There is so much power in just people showing up. I think that that is one of the ways that we need to show up for the arts community. Yes, money is great, organizing is great, advocating with the legislature, all great. But show up for the people who are doing the good work and show that you're interested, show that it matters, be that person who talks about it and tells their friends, because there is just – There's nothing like that. There's just nothing like that.
[0:30:42] JA: Yeah. Come on. Shut up. Like you all did today. First of all, I want to say, thank you to everyone for showing up today, and that I wanted to maybe, perhaps, open it up to questions for folks who may be in the audience and be casual. If you have something you want to see addressed, or asked, shout it out.
[0:31:02] RH: Can I yell out something? Don't get weary in doing good. I work a 9 to 5 job, from eight in the morning till 4.30 in the evening. Come home quickly, cook a meal. Make it real quick. Salmon and salad. Run upstairs into that studio of mine and work until 10 and 11.00 at night. My kids think that I'm insane. 76 years old. “Dad, what are you doing?” I'm painting a message that I could leave behind, that's going to change the world, right?
At this moment, I'm painting an exhibition that's going to open up July 6th at the Brattleboro Museum. The sum of us means we're all working together. World leaders in spiritual moral decline. Why not? These are the three different areas. To me, it's because I love what I'm doing. I'm not exhausted. Do it, because you are making a difference. Then it wouldn't feel like you're working too hard.
[0:32:14] JA: Energizing work. Yeah. Right on. Man, there's so much to say. Questions? Yes. The question for the listeners who maybe not be able to hear. The question is, if you're a young person and you want to literally create space, but you find that the affordability challenge is too great, what can we do to try to make headway? Or, how do we network? What should we do?
[0:32:38] AT: I'm happy to speak a little bit to that. Joe mentioned that I also co-founded the New Hampshire Culture Review, which is in its first month of life right now. It feels really both like, I guess, vulnerable and silly to talk about it right now. We are a digital arts and culture magazine. That started, because I was in between jobs. I was looking for what I was going to be doing next. I happened to be covering the culture summit that was happening in Concord, put on by the Capitol Center for the Arts about the historic defunding. I spent all day listening to a bunch of really amazing creative people talk about how we needed a central information hub to share arts and culture news in the state.
Then it was the same week of my birthday, and I went out to dinner with 15 friends that night. I just wouldn't shut up about it, essentially. They're all like, “You could do that. You should do that.” I convinced almost every single person at that table to help me. They're all working with me as contributors right now. now, and I know that's not a physical space, but it is something that's it's costing money. It's something that is very much a labor of love. I've also run my own business before, too. Finding physical space is very tough, especially in the state rents are high. Space is limited.
What I will say is this, is speak out loud what you want to do to as many people. Talk to your friends about it. Talk to your neighbors about it. Talk to your coworkers about it. You will find those people that you can connect with and build together with. I think earlier we were talking about what is that cultural landscape of New Hampshire. I said, yes, it's a state of villages. I also think we are really good at collective action in this state. We have one of the largest legislative bodies in the entire world per capita we do. It makes our government banana sometimes. We are really good at working in coalition with people in this state. If you find the right people and you talk to the right people, you may find that someone knows someone that has a space available, or can work with you on a prorating rent, or something.
You need to have those conversations and say those dreams out loud to as many people as possible. You'll find who will work with you in coalition in that way. I think that's one of the really powerful things about the state of New Hampshire is that we're really good at that community building. You just have to say it to the right person. It's there's not an easy answer. I think that that's the beauty of being here.
[0:35:12] BN: I think that's why we need to get a little weird here in New Hampshire. One of the things that I really love, I was in New York City for a year. Then obviously, when I travel, I look at lots of spaces. I think oftentimes, we can get caught up with art having to have this lasting impression, right? It always has to be here. I'm staring at one of my own pieces in the gallery that I put a ton of work in, that I'm probably going to burn down at the end of this year. It is actually designed to be functionally burned down. I think there is power in that.
One of the spaces I didn't mention, which isn't an actual space is Nav Arts. They do a lot of pop-up work in New Hampshire, which is amazing. It's not a full-time gallery. It's an artist who convinces other artists to get together and do work. There is just an exhibition at the New Hampshire Audubon in the winter. It was Hivemind. We were artists who were responding to the work of other artists. It was really amazing. But it wasn't a full-time gallery. It was an artist finding space. It’s a show that had this idea to bring artists together, who were in community and in communication with each other. I think that's why, when we think about art, we can also start to get weird. In New York, for example, I have friends who, they're putting on shows in the back room of a bar where, maybe five drunk people are going to come in. But it's like, we have to have this work out here. We have to be creative. So, we can also be creative in what that space means. It can be a pop up.
A pop up we think of just a pop up for one day. It can be a space negotiation with a lot of these community organizations, like the New Hampshire Audubon, who have a community space that might be open to a show that's up for a month, or two. It could be somebody's backyard. It could be on the street. It could be all of this weirdness. We just need to get, you think out of the box, work together, create that community, art creates community, and just get it out there.
[0:37:11] JA: You had a question? I don't think I can summarize all that for the podcast, but I think fundamentally it's really about how can we connect artists to business owners who are eager to showcase artists and be part of this cultural building conversation. There's a lot of different strategies therein. Is there anything we want to address relating to what she just brought up?
[0:37:32] AT: Yeah. I'm happy to create a database. That sounds really, like big brother. But a friendly database of businesses and artists that want to, and maybe curators that want to work together. I think that that would be wonderful. As both of you were talking, too, some other thoughts popped in my head, but there's an art center in, I think, New London, New Hampshire, too, where they are coordinating with local businesses, because they don't – they have a gallery space, but they needed to expand gallery space. They essentially have enlisted local business owners to be a part-time gallery space for them, too. But they have rules. Like, you have to be open a certain, because they want it to be a third space for the community. You have to be open a certain number of hours and be accessible to the public and not just to your employees.
It's really being built up in collaboration, so that it's filling the needs of the arts community, but it's also bringing arts to the greater community at the same time, too. Yeah, I love this. You showed up both of you and you both came with curiosity and now you're building community. It's like you're beautifully summarizing everything that we've set up here. Yay.
[0:38:44] JA: Any other questions? The question is, when you're making work, how often are you thinking about forming a bridge across divides and trying to connect with folks who maybe are polarized against what you believe? Is there a way to facilitate that through your work?
[0:39:03] BN: I'm happy to go if you want to. I thought you'd be ready, Richard.
[0:39:06] RH: You go first.
[0:39:09] BN: All of my work is a statement. I had the unfortunate coincidence of creating a guillotine that showed here the week that Charlie Kirk was assassinated. I had people talk to me, say, that they were a little nervous about posting photos of it, because the environment that we were in. Now, that guillotine was really based upon a journey of us coming together to break our own chains. All the pieces of that were gathered through a road trip across the country and dollar stores across the country. It had nothing to do with that. It was more about us coming together, breaking our chains.
There's always that risk that people take the wrong message away, or that not what you're trying to get. We celebrate. I don't know that I'm going to convince anyone that our country is built upon atrocities, who doesn't realize it's built upon atrocities and injustices. The only thing that I hope in general is that people will have conversations. It may not change anyone's mind, but I try to leave space for people to have conversations. The only piece that is an exception to that is feeding school children, because I believe that all school children should be fed and there should not be a controversial aspect to this. That's the only piece where I've judged and just said, yes, we should feed school children. Then the other pieces, I don't think I'm changing hearts and minds. I'm hoping that I'm leaving space for conversation, though.
[0:40:34] RH: I'm creating work that I hope that could change hearts and minds. I'm looking at my next series and thinking about what it was going to be. I've always wanted to do a series of work on women and their contribution to this planet. Fortunate this morning, on Sunday morning, there was a great book that's just been published. I can't wait to get my hands on it, read it, so that I can possibly illustrate it. My son says, “Dad, when you pass, all I want is your library,” because all of my work is based on reading first, getting their true facts, then get the images, then move on. My next series is going to be on women.
[0:41:16] AT: I will say that at 603 Equality right now, we have a call out for art and stories, specifically for the purpose of advocacy work. So, to change people's hearts and minds. I think that art can be a really powerful tool in that space. I mean, I as a creative person have never made something with an audience in mind, but my art practice is very much for me. I know every other artists and creatives in the room might have a different approach to that. I think that whatever you make, whether you're making it with an audience in mind, or you're making it just for you, your creation is informed by your lived experiences. It's informed within the place and time that you exist and everything that has come before you. Art is inherently political for that reason. It will inherently polarize some people for that reason.
To brand this point, it should always be a starting point for a conversation. If people have a strong reaction to it, it means it's probably doing something good. I hope that people can approach art with curiosity, too, and try and be curious about where that reaction comes from.
[0:42:28] JA: Anybody else? The question, correct me if I’m – is, where we are in these spaces that have a community that's budding and growing. If the other side doesn't feel that sense of community, how do we make that connection? Is that roughly, yeah?
[0:42:44] AT: I have thoughts, but I don't know. Yeah, yeah. I think what something that we're seeing at the state level in New Hampshire, specifically too, is this ideology of togetherness and shared responsibility for one another. Butting heads with individualism. I think that might be why we see a sense of community on one side of the political spectrum and not necessarily reflected in the same way as on the other, is because one of the foundational principles that I've seen in opposition to the things that we see on the walls here is a strong sense of individualism, individual responsibility, and also, individual rights and freedoms. Sometimes those are at odds and with intense friction of the overall community needs. That is as diplomatic as I can phrase that. Yeah.
[0:43:47] RH: My work deals a lot with race, right? I'm the child of the Civil Rights Movement. Could that look like me when I was coming up? Can't try on a hat? Can't try on shoes? Your footprint traced on a brown paper bag and the shoes put on top of the tracing and ask your parents whether or not that shoe would fit your child. You never tried on an Easter suit. The suit is held a foot away from you and asked, does that suit fit your child? Can't go to the public library. Can't go to a public restaurant. You can't go to a public bathroom. You have your own water fountain. What do you think of yourself? I'm not here to hurt anyone.
I was married 46 years to a German woman. Unfortunately, just passed a pancreatic cancer. She was my angel. It's never my desire to hurt in the subject that I paint. That's why I have so many beautiful, bold colors. It's hope. It's joy. Just take a moment and look at it and try to really understand it, the subject, then learn from it. My door is always open for dinner, for lunch. Let's chat about it. I go around the state empowering young people of all nationalities. My job, to make a difference in that community that you're about to build. We've got to get them when they’re young. Let's make a difference. My work is never to hurt. Because then, if it's to hurt, then you need to shut your mouth, Richard. It is to build a society that we are going.
You would never know who your angel might be? I may be your angel. You're leaving here this afternoon. Get in a car accident. Sorry to have murdered you in that car accident. Would you get to that pearly gate, and at that pearly gate, thank you for allowing me to end it to this pearly place. But I got a bone to pick with you. I asked you for a prayer and I never received that prayer. That spirit flipped through that book and said, wait a minute. I did give you the answer to your prayer. Richard, was your hat your answer? That black guy? Unfortunately, yes. We must all learn to love each other unconditionally.
[0:46:18] AT: It's hard to follow up that.
[0:46:20] JA: Yeah. No –
[0:46:21] BN: It's hard to follow up that, but I will say, too, in terms of community and who we can invite in and be more inclusive, too, I do think art still and art galleries still have the intersectionality issue of elitism, right? People who are afraid if they are not educated enough to come in and view the art, what that says about them. I think we need to be honest about that, too. We have people of all walks of life who have that, but we can see that that's a challenge still. I think, removing and reducing those barriers to make it to say, “Hey, just come in. Art is about your experience with the art.” You don't have to have a degree and everything is not $10,000 in this gallery. It's okay to come in and look. It's a free experience in many galleries.
I think part of that helps encourage more people to the community. I think we have to understand that's an important piece in the intersectionality conversation is that it can be seen as like, that's not for me, or they're elitists, or that's for someone else, as opposed to, yeah, I can come in and enjoy this in the way that speaks to me.
[0:47:35] AT: I will echo that too. I think the more that we can welcome in folks, regardless of personal beliefs, or political beliefs, art can change minds. Stories can change minds. My hope is that no one walks into an art space and feels immediately, like this is not a place for them. I do think that some people maybe self-select out of those places. Then it becomes a question of, how do we invite them in in a meaningful way that they will respond to.
[0:48:07] JA: Yeah, as a teacher, I see that constantly. Kids not opting in to sign up for a very simple intro art class, because they feel like, “Oh, that's not me. That's not my identity. I can't do that.” I love when a kid brings up, they're like, I'll show them a piece of artwork straight from the canon of our history. They're like, “That looks that meme I saw on Facebook.” Well, they're not on Facebook anymore.
[0:48:29] AT: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
[0:48:30] JA: Yeah. I love everything everyone up here has said, and I really appreciate you guys for having this conversation with us today. Can we give our panelists a round of applause, please?
[0:48:45] AT: Can we give Joe a round of applause, too?
[0:48:47] JA: Oh, me?
[0:48:48] AT: Yeah.
[0:48:54] JA: While we’re at it, let's give Mosaic Art Collective and Creative Guts a round of applause, please, for hosting this event.
[0:49:03] ALL: Show us your creative guts.
[0:49:07] JA: Thank you, everybody.
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